Regarding Conclave Arcana pack prices.
Hello everyone. Lately, there has been a lot of discussion about what price should Conclave Arcana packs be. Not only on Splinterlands' discord but also in here. To me, the most important discussion is not the price of the pack by itself but the cost to build a full set at max level. Still, having the discussion of the price of packs is better than having no discussion at all.
Let's start by talking about the timing. The best timing for any change regarding pricing would have been with Rebellion. One of the biggest arguments in favor of keeping or increasing the price is to not devalue older packs. However, CL was already very overprinted and there was no way to save it. Past sets would all be in Wild after Rebellion came out. Adding to all of this, CL didn't cost $4 per pack, it cost way less. Ignoring the $16 vouchers during the pre sale, there were the usual bulk discounts, plus the team offered even bigger discounts privately to even bigger buyers. Packs we're also distributes in reward chests. And there was a special sale where the packs went for much cheaper. It was a missed opportunity. Regardless of missing the best possible timing, I still believe we need to do something about the cost of the game.
Untamed packs cost $2, there were bulk discounts, the burn value was twice what it is today, and they were included in ranked rewards. I have talked about CL's conditions and that was during the biggest bull run Splinterlands has ever seen. I know Bitcoin is higher now, but that effect has not entered Splinterlands and even Hive isn't as high as it was at the time. In fact, as I'm writing this, Hive is going down. Rebellion prices were too high and, now that there aren't bulk discounts, they should be lowered to match the sentiment and the overall economy state.
I think it's good that there aren't bulk discounts because that would create a situation where some people would buy just to sell in the secondary market to those who can't afford to buy in big quantities. But we need to consider this as well as not having these packs as prizes in the pricing.
To me the biggest question is the overall cost of the total set and the cost of the game as a whole. Before, players didn't need any SPS to earn, they could earn with ghost cards, they could earn packs and cards they could sell. All of that is gone. We need to invest much more to earn much less. The pricing needs to be adjusted to the new reality. We also have very recently added a bunch of overpriced promo cards that many players felt very much prices out and opted to ignore them.
In my opinion, the best way to solve the issue with overall cost of the game is, starting with CA, reducing the number of copies to reach max level on each card. Not only that, but I would also simplify the level system and make all cards have only 4 levels. With this new system it's also easier for new players to know which level they need each of their cards. Of their summoners are at level 2, they can play up to level 2 of every single card. It would also make it easier to not have overleveled cards. Going from Gold to max it very difficult. Commons at 220 bcx need 180 to reach max level but the best prices are often on max cards or other gold level cards. Same for the other rarities.
I would go for something like this:
Legendaries - 1 BCX per level which means 4 BCX would be level 4.
Epics: 1, 3, 6, 12.
Rares: 1, 5, 10, 20.
Commons: 1, 25, 50, 100.
It wouldn't have to be exactly these values as I know the reduction was bigger in lower rarities than in legendaries, but it's just meant to be an example. It would also mean that the design team wouldn't need to make 10, 8 and 6 different levels for non legendaries.
This change means prices could stay the same, the burn value per DEC spent in packs wouldn't be higher, but we would have cheaper sets that more players could afford. I honestly fear that with the current prices, especially after CL is out of Modern, we risk having a game where only a few whales can afford to play.
I agree it will make it easier on players to achieve complete sets and understand levels if these changes were made, I struggled to get to grasps with the levels when I first started, but I also think it’s important that players have something to reach for and if everyone had max decks we become the same as every other game.
!BBH
I don't remember how to check the price of a max set but I don't think anywhere near $10k, which Rebellion surpasses, if not by itself, no doubt with all the promos, is not something most people can afford to spend. Even if we halved it, not many players could do it. I don't think there's a danger of everyone having a max set.
The only reason many (still not all) have a max CL set is because it was massively overprinted and prices dumped. With many people giving up and selling everything and a few others remaining and scooping those low prices, there are many max decks.
If the per pack coast was far lower people who normally do not buy packs would actually spend a lot more then anyone would expect. Its the same principle as a dollar store where the company makes money off of volume not higher prices. The main reason Rebellion did not sell is because people were disgusted with the team and lack of progress. And did not believe in the game with two major layoffs. Also people were bitter as they watched other crypto games popping off and splinterlands just bleeding out for over a year. The same thing is happening right now in 2025. Other crypto gaming projects are ramping up and here is splinterlands yet again with lots of promised content but no actual delivery. Also getting money onto hive is a bit of a chore compared to moving your monet into and out of other crypto game ecosystems.
All that is true!
Double edge sword, if cheap renter player gone it will buying the pack and renting card will not profit at all,
If expensive the buyer will only the whale and the gap will be very wide. And in the end this is game for whale vs whale, if dont have money could not playing this game unless renting and not profit at all
What about the world where people don't need to compete with maximum decks all the time? I think when Chaos Legion rotates we will finally see a Modern format where completion is scarce, only at the top, while people start to distribute back to different league levels more naturally. This is assuming people are willing to play this game seriously without a max collection.
I like to keep pack price but would be fine with half price. I'm just not convinced it would sell 2x as much product at $2. We'll see but I don't feel strongly either way.
I dont think people will play without a max collection without leagues caps.
Im one of the people that cant afford a max level CA deck. And because of that I wont play at all. Its just boring when someone else will just come in and beat you because they have higher level cards.
I understand. It feels incomplete playing with a certain level deck and facing higher level decks, which will eventually happen no matter your level, especially if you're really good. It also encourages players to ignore certain splinters and just focus in a few of them. Forfeiting a game once in a while to play max decks the rest of the time likely means a higher rating than having everything at gold.
Yes, exactly. I though about it. Lets imagine I have an incomplete silver CA deck in conjunction with my max Reb deck. I will fight in silver against dumb bots and quickly move up to gold. In gold I will find other silver decks in the same situation but I will also find some gold and diamond decks that are just bad players.
True, I will have a 50% win rate but I will win against the bad or underleveled players while losing to the overleveled ones. Honestly for that I rather just let the bot play. It sounds extremely boring.
This is feedback Matt needs to hear. I agree it is demoralizing and unfun to lose in ranked play against a deck with better cards than you. Just because said decks will eventually have a fair distribution higher in the ratings over time, it doesn't make the experience of losing down to your fair rating level any more fun.
Maybe there will be that magic equilibrium where incomplete silver, gold, and diamond decks will congregate in the Modern ranked play with Conclave Arcana, but I'm not sure what will happen when all the maxed Chaos Legion goes away. It will be vitally important to the game that this experience and "great reset" of Modern goes well for non-max deck players.
There will always be an equlibirum, but at least for me and the type of player I am if I lose to someone with overleveled cards I get demoralized and sad because I cant afford them. It really puts me down.
If I lose to someone with similar cards as me I play more because I want to be better.
Yes I understand this mindset completely. Nobody wants to lose to someone because of their cards and not their skill. But I can also imagine that beating a player with better cards must be even more rewarding knowing that your superior strategy outplayed their card advantage. It is a very delicate balance and I'm hoping that when Chaos Legion rotates, players in your position will have an easier time finding battles against players with similar cardpools.
Yeah, I dont know. I cant tell the future. Maybe things will work out like this somehow. Or maybe something better will come along.
Lowering the price of CA would certainly help players like me though. I think what is proposed in this post can help with that.
I hope so as well. We need to do whatever we can to support players having fun playing the game without needing to buy every card.
The thing is that without leagues, playing without max decks, you'll eventually start facing max decks (or decks above your level), especially if you're good enough.
You either outskill the max deck, or you lose to the max deck and go down to a rating where there are more players without max decks. Hopefully we will find equilibrium in modern without max decks once Chaos Legion rotates.
That works in theory but in practice, especially the best players, will eventually be at the point where they face about half max decks (or decks a level above). And this is the best case scenario where there are enough players. What we currently have is nowhere near that and it will get worse after CL leaves Modern. We're gonna have even bigger rating gaps between opponents, which is gonna increase the chances of facing higher and lower levels.
I hope it is better than that if new players come in!
Your point about total set cost is interesting. Set cost is a function of pack prices and the number of cards in the set. There are arguments that the 4K DEC price without discount in RB is what has helped maintain prices. However, we could request that there are less cards in the set?
Honestly, what has made Rebellion cards hold their value is that most players left are still burned from CL and decided to not spend anything or spend very little in Rebellion. Let's see once CL rotates, if those players will just give up on the game, bot in wild, or if they'll invest in CA.
The 4k cost no discount only happened late into Rebellion's life. I don't have the numbers but if I was to guess, I'd say over 75% of total sales were already done.
Thanks for adding to the conversation in a thoughtful way!
That's how it should have worked all along with leveling up cards, but I think it's too late to change how many cards are needed for max level this late in the game. The people at the top of the pyramid would never go for that.
You're spot on. It's more expensive overall to play the game and the earnings are considerably lower than they've ever been. It's part of the reason it's unattractive to people to get into the game. The packs are expensive, and then you need thousands of them to get a max level deck. That's the price of a used car every year and a half to be competitive. Competing for what? Soulbound cards and a token that keeps going lower in value? It all comes to down to whether or not we have faith in the future price of SPS. Some of us do, but what reason do prospective new players have to be faithful that they're earning something that will be valuable?
And how fun is the game in general? Then how fun is it when you factor in the high costs of owning assets? And let's not forget all the drama. People constantly want to change everything about the game. That's got to be concerning for any potential new players as well.
And we're in a real tough place. Nothing seems like a great idea going forward. Keeping it expensive and the whales will act as a bandaid and get us through a few more years, but without a lot of new players, how long do we really have?
!PIZZA
I don't think it's too late for this change, which I admit is very big. I would argue that soulbound reward cards and removal of leagues were as big or even bigger, though.
As for the people at the top, they have asked us to take hits over and over again for the good of the game. It's time they accept some changes that might not be so great for them personally.
I often hear the argument that whales are the people who bring the most revenue to the game. However, what are whales without the rest of the players? Whales are only interested in spending a lot so they can flex other players. It's very different to flex over 1000 players or 1 million players. Having a lot of other regular players is what can attract more and bigger whales.
$PIZZA slices delivered:
@sharkmonsters(1/5) tipped @olaf.gui
The leveling up of cards should certainly be revisited. The cost of leveling up outweighs the marginal utility of leveling up.
Plus the bcx cost per level doesn't make much sense (1,5,9,14,30, 60...) seems just like some random numbers they pulled out their butt. Should have been (1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512).
Hell, I would even get rid of the max level, combine an extra 512 cards and get an extra health, speed shield.
As for pricing, to reduce the cost of packs I would increase the burn value of the cards from 10x to 100x.
I don't know if I would want that infinite level up, although it could be interesting. However, such an increase in burn value could be very dangerous for DEC minting.
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