RE: Introducing Splinterlands Survival Mode
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Hi @yabapmatt Survival Mode is absolutely a good idea because more game modes = + fun = + use cases for cards and tokens BUT
Modern Format is the only format that is fun for Splinterlands players who LOVE to play on Splinterlands
The Wild Format is a format with 0 fun because it is the realm of bots and is basically an idle game.
In Survival Mode will bots be allowed?
The current big problem is:
- real players can only play and have fun in one format and with only two sets of cards
- bots can use all cards from all editions AND NOW THEY WILL HAVE TWO FORMATS AT THEIR TOTAL DISPOSAL.
Does Splinterlands want to attract new real players or not?
Real players are the pillars of any game but on Splinterlands it seems that protecting the bots is the priority...
If Survival Mode will be only for real players = great idea
If Survival Mode will also be for bots = bad idea
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Honestly at this point, can't tell if they're just trolling real players...
These are all things that we have thoroughly considered in designing this new format and it's good that you brought them up for further discussion. The first thing to keep in mind is that most everything you have said here - while presented as facts - are actually just your opinions. It's important to understand that other people view things differently.
For example:
I understand that in your opinion Wild is "0 fun", but I know a lot of people who enjoy the game experience of using bot services in Wild. Many people enjoy idle games and I don't see any reason that Splinterlands should not provide an option for those players as long as that option doesn't take away from the experience for players who prefer an active game, which is why it is completely separate from Modern format.
This is not true at all. You seem to be categorizing "real players" as people who do not use bots. I think this is a bad way to look at it. Behind every single bot is a very real player and that group has put millions of dollars collectively into this ecosystem over the years. I can assure you that many "real players" can and do have fun in Wild format.
Yes! We want to attract players who want to test their skill against other human players in live battles (and we have been doing a lot of work on that front recently) but we ALSO want to attract players who want to compete in a more passive, collection-management style game experience. We feel that the latter is a very key demographic for Splinterlands that has contributed significantly to our success in the past but that we have been ignoring more recently, which has been to the detriment of everyone in the ecosystem.
Finally, I want to note that we clearly stated that assuming this new format is successful and we are able to work out the kinks that we will look into adding a version of this format that does not allow automated services or battle helpers to be used.
Hi @yabapmatt first of all I thank you for your reply because I always like to confront different ideas from mine and especially with you who are the creator of my favorite web3 game.
I have been playing on Splinterlands for more than 5 years and I have never used bots because I like to play on Splinterlands.
However, I would like to address some points where we seem to diverge and explain my thinking better.
Absolutely it is my opinion and it was not my intent for it to look like a fact.
It is my personal opinion but it is also the opinion of all the members of my Guild and many players who have commented on my posts over the years and looking them up I could list quite a number of active players who have an opinion similar to mine.
You are absolutely right that my statement about Wild Format being "0 fun" is my personal opinion.
Splinterlands is a beautiful strategy game, and the most beautiful part is the gameplay.
the definition of gameplay is "characteristic of video games that represents the experience of the player's interaction with the game".
Can the use of a bot in the Wild Format be called a game experience?
If within Splinterland there had been an option use a bot then yes but that is not the case because whoever wants to use a bot plays on the interface of a third party service.
In my opinion there is no gaming experience in using a bot because it is the bot that plays and the person who uses a bot you can call him an investor, manager of NFTs, tokens and rewards but not a player or at least not an active player.
I understand your perspective that every bot represents a "real player".
So I correct the term real player to active/manual player because that's the term I wanted to refer to and I rephrase my question because that's the crucial point in my opinion to be solved.
Why is it that active players who only want to play against active players like themselves can only do so in the Modern Format and can only use cards from the last two editions?
Why can those who use bots use all cards from all editions in the Wild Format?
My opinion is not meant to be a war between pro bots and anti bots but just wants to bring attention that in fact currently on Splinterlands people like me who only enjoy playing against active players cannot use all their cards for fun, my fun.
Of course those who use bots have fun playing but active players? Active players enjoy playing against bots? some maybe do but I have yet to meet a player who plays manually in the Wild format happy with bots.
What I think should be solved is this balance regarding the possibility of fun that for active players is restricted if an active player wants to play only against players like him who have the win and error chances of a (this is a fact).
It is always just my opinion the current Modern Format - Wild Format division can attract new players but only in the short term while a game as beautiful as Splinterlands should think about the medium to long term because it has this potential.
What will the new active player do when he finds out that the cards he buys and uses in Modern Format will be able to use them against active players like him on a temporary basis and then he will have to use a bot for cards coming out of Modern Format?
Does an active player currently on Splinterlands have the same options regarding his cards that a real player using a bot has?
Will an active player be able to play with all his cards in the future without being forced to play against bots that are more efficient than he is?
100%😍
Simple as that: a player who doesn't play isn't a player.
Matt I respectfully ask, where are those millions? I clearly do not see it inside our ecosystem:)
So I am going to guess that those millions are sold for cash. I rest my case.
A real human maybe, but not a real player.
If I let my chess software beat chess grandmasters that doesn't make me a chess player (maybe a good programmer, but in case I use the chess software of anybody else, I might not even be a programmer).
But fortunately, in every successful game software is strictly separated from human competition.
I don't think there there is any doubt about that point. We can all agree on that.
I am always arguing about the earnings and exploitation bit. If bots put in millions in the game they have taken their millions out and more. They were and are a net negative. How do we know? We know from price of the assets and our tokens and they don't lie.
I totally agree with you and am glad that at least one SPS whale has a medium to long term perspective for Splinterlands.
My curiosity after receiving yabpmatt's response is:
If those who use bots are so important to Splinterlands why the wild pass and why not allow bots in the Modern Format?
My idea is that Splinterlands continue to look at the short term and this I regret because Splinterlands is a beautiful game that has to look at growth in the medium to long term and bots in this growth cannot have the importance they have now...
I disagree with this heavily. we know nothing about this in that regard from just looking at prices of assets and tokens. This isn´t how it works at all :/
Show me how it works. Show me your millions ;)
Nice! Thanks for the invite to your group! Looking forward to this!
I agree 100%
I play manually in wild and it IS FUN. I love using the older cards that have rotated out of modern.
well there goes his whole theory that it is 0.0% now he'll have to apologize and update his numbers. hahaha (cuz that will happen)
Hi @jarvie :)
My comment was a personal and passionate opinion as an active Splinterlands player who loves Splinterlands and was not meant to have any statistical value. I thought it was implied that it was my opinion but in fact I should have specified it better and so for that I apologize, I never have a problem with apologizing :)
But here you should apologize to yourself to have believed that fatjimmy actually plays manually nel wild format because it is certainly possible but it seems funny to me that there is someone who buys xbot and archmage and doesn't use them :) LOL
But joking aside, my opinions are completely opinable and I am interested in confronting ideas different from mine.
I am not against those who create bots or those who use them but I see a balancing problem in the options available between active players and those who use bots.
Do you think it is fair that an active player who wants to play against only active players like him can only use two sets of cards in the Modern Format while someone who uses a bot can use all the cards?
Wouldn't it be more logical to give the same option to both?
If bots are so useful why not allow them in Modern Format as well?
Why the Wild Pass?
So far I have not found a “real” active player happy to play manually against bots if you find one I would be curious to meet him ;)
Hi @fatjimmy first of all, I would like to make it clear that I am not against those who create bots or those who use them.
There is in my opinion a problem related to the impossibility for an active player who wants to play only against active players like him to use all his cards and not only the cards that can be used in the Modern Format.
But in my opinion IS FUN that you who have xbot, archmage in your wallet don't use them and you write a comment in which you also say that you don't use them even though you have purchased them. Do you like to buy tokens that you don't use? :)
You can own a bot token and let It play when you don't.. Is the perfect combo to enjoy the game but not being forced to play 24 matches every day. It becomes a job, not a funny game.
Absolutely yes it is possible but I challenge you to find an active player who does not use bots who enjoys playing against bots.
I have nothing against bots but I think mixing active players and bots or rather indirectly forcing active players to play against bots is not the right choice and no successful game has ever done such a thing.
bots and active player should have the same chance to be able to choose who to play against and with all cards, human or bots on Splinterlands don't have the same chance because bots can use all cards against human and non-human players while human players can't.
Is this a problem for you?
For me it is a big problem
Yeah I completely agree on this
PLEASE do not put words in my mouth. I never claimed to NOT use a bot.
I DO use a bot in wild, I was forced to turn it on a few months ago for the first time ever on my main account. Unfortunately we NEED to ALWAYS be playing to keep up with the soulbound rewards cards in order to stay competitive (a concept I currently despise - we are putting up permanent barriers new players will NEVER be able to overcome the longer it goes on).
I used to not worry at all if I was unable to play for a few days, but with SBR cards, we fall behind if we stop, so botting is literally being incentivized (again I find this very unfortunate). That said I only let my bot play to 25 energy, (1 days worth of battles/recharge if nobody plays), and I always have a days worth for me or my scholar to play manually. I typically play a few manual battles in wild every day at lunch as I eat. You will also note that I have several tokens in the same acct that I scooped up when cheap... they are SPL assets and I like to collect SPL assets.