RE: SPS Governance Proposal - Adjust Rewards Based on Card Level
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Adding some Economics to strengthen this argument
Wild cards have a lower circulation than the new editions and would have their bonuses impacted and negated at higher tiers. It feels strange to give Alpha and Beta card pack bonuses and then negate them by implementing this change.
For example, in Wild the total print was
300,000 Alpha Packs
900,000 Beta Packs
200,000 Essence Orbs
300,000 Azmare Dice
Compare that to our Modern Format
1,500,000 Untamed Packs
15,000,000 Chaos Legion Packs
3,000,000 Riftwatcher Packs
There have been significantly more packs for Modern than Wild Cards
50X compared to Azmare and Alpha 75X for Essence Orbs and 16.67X for Beta
Modern also provides more rewards per battle than Wild and has consistently since implementation this is also where many bots focus league-wise.
This makes the relatively cheaper editions earn more SPS and drains the pool for new players due to botting while punishing older players who own older edition cards and play in the wild format since they may not have or want to sell out their older edition cards that cannot be played in the modern format.
The main bots are also concentrated in Gold Silver and Bronze Leagues, the argument on Diamond and Champion level bots is rare given the case Modern pays more SPS than Wild per battle at the lower leagues.
The area that concerns me is the need to max out Legendary cards in older sets where it may not make sense and honestly is far more expensive for fewer rewards than the modern format to avoid penalties in Diamond and Champion lv 3 Legendary GF vs lv 2 Alpha or Beta GF would cost 2225 USD at a minimum if you already have one GF card.
This proposal makes sens at lower levels, however, it doesn't make sense to apply it to Diamond and Champion uniformly, I don't see a problem with high-level Bots I see a problem with CP exploits.
Honestly, what needs to happen is draining the players rating slowly when they don't have the required CP (or Power).
That is a huge RED FLAG for people double dipping.
@just2randoms picture in the SPS Dao proposal.
If they don't have the 'Power' for that league then each day their rating is reduced and helps the active players push past them.
I respectfully disagree with the current proposal as I feel there are merits to this at Gold and below where botting is more prevalent.
However, CP costs in Higher Tiers and napping accounts are where the problem lies in Diamond and Champion not botting.
As this proposal stands I don't like the uniform approach that this proposal implies and would like to see it tailored to the lower league gameplay first before applying it to the higher rulesets.
I would vote yes if the proposal impacted Gold League and Below initially
With a separate test if the bots become a larger problem at Diamond and Champion I don't like the overall tradeoffs if Bots are primarily gold and below punishing players who have full sets but have not maxed out every single card just does not make sense to me at the higher leagues.
my bots are diamond 1 and champion lol i guess im the rare one
Yep one bot of the 1025 players if I recall correctly that can play at Champ
And one bot of the 4408 players at Diamond if the stats are still accurate which is a small cute pool for botting :)
So a really rare bot that does not impacts the other
460000 players in Gold and Below give or take a bit since its chilling in its own pool :)
https://peakd.com/splinterlands/@sps.dao/sps-governance-proposal-split-ranked-battle-reward-pools-by-league
A number of players have asked for more data relating the the proposed ranked battle reward changes above. The following table shows the number of unique accounts and % of total SPS earned by league and battle format over the past week (8/24 - 8/31):
Modern Players % of SPS Wild Players % of SPS
Bronze 52,323 1.06% Bronze 141,589 6.44%
Silver 111,212 81.84% Silver 118,704 25.92%
Gold 15,042 13.18% Gold 18,506 38.72%
Diamond 1,601 3.72% Diamond 2,807 17.71%
Champion 202 0.20% Champion 823 11.21%
A lot of those "unique" accounts are playing both formats though. If you check the dashboard on Peakmonsters you can track the Daily Active Users. We're really only around 170-180k average DAU for the past week and who knows how many of those are bots. My guess is at least half
Well Splex made a post they control 40% of the Rental market assuming the other half is Peakmonsters we get the data
GenepoolChlrn8r — 10/13/2022
@everyone
Believe it or not it has been 6 months since we started our journey together. The very first transactions made by what would become affectionately known as the Rent Golem were made on April 13, 2022.
The Rent Golem and this Discord were both publicly launched on April 16th and we’re now up to 2,216 members on Discord and over twice that many rental accounts. I have often said my favorite part of this project is the community of users and the quality of discussions we have on this Discord. Thank you for that!
Now, 6 months later, the Rent Golem is managing over 40% of the rental market in terms of both USD and card volume. This is INCREDIBLE growth far beyond what we hoped for in such a short time. The pace of change has been phenomenal and I wanted to take a moment to outline what all Yixn has been able to accomplish.
Once the Rent Golem was stabilized renting both Modern and Wild Cards (May 19th), Yixn turned his attention to creating tools geared to help those of us managing many accounts. In late May, Fast Sweep and the ability to autoclaim quests and the SPS airdrop brought in lots of new users including many who came for the tools but eventually became Rent Golem users as well.
In Early June, Yixn turned out a couple of tools a week including Reward Lookups (Daily and Seasonal), a Pack Calculator to help us all determine when it was profitable to buy, a ratings graph for our battle history, currency calculators and overall account values all on one overview screen.
During this time we had also been working with the Splinterlands team to get the SPLEX market allowlisted and on June 27th, Yixn published the market with advanced analytics around rental values at different levels and time periods and a cashback program that has proven to be much more rewarding than the leading competitor’s private token.
It was also around this time that we recognized that we had grown beyond just rentals and rebranded as Splinterlands Exchange (SPLEX) to better reflect the breadth of our tools and start to create a hub to support other third party projects.
Our first partnership was with Archmage in early July, where we agreed to provide a market for their tokens and a front end to help streamline their onboarding process. This partnership was highly successful in large part because there are tremendous synergies between our respective user bases. Each project attempts to help players derive yield from their assets in a more hands off way.
After managing some life changes in August, Yixn was able to adjust priorities to make it so that he has been able to focus on SPLEX full time starting in September. This has been extremely apparent by the increased pace of development.
Aside from numerous improvements to the market and other existing tools, we introduced a Referral system in early September and a Riftwatcher pack calculator within a couple of days of the ability to open Riftwatcher packs.
The last few weeks have seen SPLEX add a Missing BCX Buyer to help people complete their desired sets, a Delegation tool to take advantage of a new API introduced by Splinterlands for scholars and bot owners to send staked SPS to other accounts, and Reward Pool Stats to help people determine which league and format are currently the most profitable.
After all of that, we’re ready to announce the biggest new feature SPLEX has seen since the market. I’ll do a separate post to highlight the features, but SPLEX is proud to announce our new Collection Page that solves many of the pain points we continually encountered when trying to use existing solutions.
Thank you so much for those of you who have stuck with us this long (both the service and the length of this post).
Be on the lookout for both the detailed announcement of the Collection Page and an announcement of a Contest and Giveaway to honor our 6 month anniversary.
Only 40% of the rental market? Not to make that seem like any small feat.. I just would've guessed a bit higher than that judging from the number of people always talking about it and recommending it.
I like and use Splex but a part of me can't help but think... if the rental market is constantly being botted and the bots are constantly undercutting other bots for the lowest rental listing... did card prices organically drop or did Splex inadvertently drive them down?
Would not say they did though looking at peakmonsters you can see the last six months of data
https://peakmonsters.com/dashboard
What was more interesting is why daily users dropped May 31st to June 1st
(Its a dramatic fall of half the users/bots?)
That said 176,000 seems to be the real average players over the last month
With card volume and rent pretty consistent overall given the bear market with a big spike 2 weeks ago
That timeframe was the big bot nerf, but that definitely didn't kill all of them. Yeah we've fluctuated a bit since then but from talking to people I know personally, people in my guild, and people on Discord, my guess is the overall decrease in human players is being significantly offset by another increase in bots.
I'll admit rental volume is consistent, but rental prices overall have dipped significantly. Even in my scenario of Bot A undercutting Bot B, who then undercuts Bot C, who undercuts Bot A, who restarts the cycle... the volume still stays the same... it's the overall value taking the hit.
176k can't account for the real average of players when there's at least 2 dozen people I know running 10+ bots each. That's 24 people responsible for 240 accounts and I highly doubt this situation is an outlier.
!BEER
The ECR gameplay change made me move to use the bot services myself so the gameplay change is more of redelegation of ECR vs rent for me.
If they can earn and play and I can throw more games than the 50% ecr cap I'm happy my cards are doing something vs rent, heck if they made a cap of 200 games a day that would do more to quell bots vs humans players, the problem are the self coded bots that don't have 10 to 15 min cooldowns and can do whatever.
On the other hand, I know some players who play all on one account and run below 50% ECR and get penalized for playing a few games without noticing so it led me to keep a few accounts myself at a reasonable level and alternating if I want if I don't feel like it bots run down ECR and getting enough games in :)
Really was getting annoyed as a player when it only recharges 24% a day and with only a few mins a game I can easily finish those in an hour. It's fine if you leave it alone for a few days but it's not that many battles when you're just going at it.
On the other hand, it does make me play more tourneys and brawls, since those can fill in the gaps :) Always like to play a few rounds of regular as a warm-up though before a tourney.
Overall though I agree rent volume may be consistent however, there is a general decrease in players makes sense in crypto winters, it is still higher than it was pre Bullrun I think but it's nowhere near what it was during the bull run.
My group is targeting 1500 accounts but for new players only or middle level there will be a section for some experianced max players but like 2-5% will be that and those are the owners and profit share partners.
View or trade
BEER.Hey @freedomno1, here is a little bit of
BEERfrom @torran for you. Enjoy it!Do you want to win SOME BEER together with your friends and draw the
BEERKING.NFty will be getting some of that pie there services is great ive been testing looking at it and im aalready in business now with them were just aiting to launch
If you spend 85K to get your accounts to bot ujntil diamond or champ so you dont need to play lower leauges i think that sort of investment in a bot is ok bc i clearly supported the game
And is already rewarded in Diamond and Champion as its own pools :)
https://peakd.com/splinterlands/@sps.dao/sps-governance-proposal-split-ranked-battle-reward-pools-by-league
Your arguing for less than 5K players rewards pool vs 460,000 :)
Unless we get some more data that there are more players lurking up there
Im saying do not chop off a high level investors bots thtat have alot per account invested thatis doing somthing good by creating 50 guilds with 1500 scholars to help improve the game. As well as pay myself bc i do need a payout to im a investor not a complete charity but my project will halp many with this.
I like wild better than modern I feel like you win eaier in wild
Ya, I like wild more but it pays less than modern and would cost more to max out at present with a vastly lower card circulation.
It's actually kind of funny since you are a lone bot in the Diamond and Champion leagues it will just cost you more if the bot decides to play a cheap lower than tier level card for some reason against the other 1k players :)
So its a double penalty one for wilds lower rewards and two for bot picking variety if not every single card is maxed out.
I already have it all i guess so i just play there but will have alot of modern fard sooon 12000 packs for a opening and will be giving away cool things if i can get my hads on them.
I have the A bot it does prettyy goood i think there hand picked cards and hasnt worked good in modern for me lol