A sad realization about Splinterlands Hive Resource Extraction :(

Didn't read the full post but seems like a lot of effort went into it from a deserving author for my full vote!

@slobberchops

If you find time, and is keen on doing so please, can you direct your bot to specifically participants of SL Social Media engagement, Art Contests, Community Engagement.

I will make a plot specifically to those individuals and their hive interaction behavior.

Nothing is free I belive. People who are getting rewarded, I expect them to contribute to the chain. Also as we like to say it, have some skin in the game.

Thanks for sharing! - @azircon

the Cabal Lord and Downvote Mafia Boss

LOL... made me laugh. We are all here to downvote you!

Nice article, I am glad you took @azircon's advice, as HIVE will keep going. Splinterlands I am not so sure about.

• BAN BOTS (All of them).
• Make Reward cards tradable again.
• Make them less abundant.

1st action in combination with rewards being sized by SPS stake will fix the farmers. You have to play manually, or get nothing. BOT abusers banned permanently.

2nd action is why all my RL friends have abandoned the game, and why I no longer play. Nothing of value for playing.. besides SPS which is at .075c per 1.

3rd action. Too many cards. When I was playing... within weeks I was maxing reward cards out. Too easy, no challenge and because they are locked, no excitement. End of season was a chore, not pleasurable like it used to be.

Welcome to Double-Dolphin status!

Great post man, as always. Yeah I mean I wish I could disagree but I don't. I changed my posts so the rewards are 50% auto-staked and then 99% of the time Ill stake the rest too unless there's something I want to buy in Splinterlands, or another Hive game like I used my liquid rewards to buy a Holozing alpha vial. But yes, never have I ever even once, taken my rewards from Hive and converted to fiat. Not even a single penny 💪 We're all in this together. Hive and SPS can be piggybanks but only if we take care of them. If all we do is extract? The piggybank will break.

Omg I love how you investigate and actually get proof. This will prolly get me killed but I would love to see you investigate SPL "top scholars" and see just many thousands of dollars are being extracted to fiat every season. I bet you would actually vomit, for real vomit 😑 and also remember when you were asking "why does SPS always get crushed" .... that's why. 100% that is the reason. Jmo. Scholars dumping SPS outside the system where no one wants it. Supply and demands means that scholar extraction will ALWAYS keep SPS in the dumpster. It never has a chance to make a run 😓

But the art? Art doesn't have to explain itself. You brute!! 😜

First of all, this is a GREAT post! And your $72+ in HIVE rewards is totally deserved, I even threw in my 10 cents LOL.

Second, I agree on Azircon he is great. I believe his direct communication style is a cultural thing, but it never bothered me. His posts that you referenced is also the reason I have started stacking HP and while I didn't reach my 10k HP goal in 2024, I will reach it this year. Here is what happened to my HP after I read his posts 3-4 months ago:

It was him who woke me up (I never powered down I just took half of the author rewards and converted it into SPS), but it wasn't just him, once I read his posts, saw the data I became interested in HIVE and then I discovered many other great sources to learn from or very interesting to read such as Acidyo and Taraz and others.

I am still very much involved in Splinterlands and I hope it is successful long term as I am holding hundreds of thousands of SPS and a ton of card assets, but my new focus is HIVE and I hope other Splinterlands players will focus more on HIVE.

And don't let the graph on top full you, I am still very much stacking HP:

As far as Splinterlands Art contest I see both of your points yes there is clear extraction going on, the question is if the art that is being created for this contests is worth for Splinterlands to pay these artists from South America?

I'm famous and crap! haha. I'm someone who used to have a lot of HP (over 20k - not on this account) and has almost none now. I don't really regret it. It's hard to be into too many things at once. Splinterlands assets were a lot more appealing to me than having a lot of Hive, so that's basically why I sold it all when it was up a few years ago.

I've been on Hive since day one. My accounts were made on Steem and became Hive accounts when it was forked.

Also, for those that don't know, you can get an AI-generated TLDR version of any post on PeakD.

I would argue that most artists are at least creating content that has more value than the old, recycled battle posts but I haven't seen them for awhile. When an artist is able to survive off working on hive we need to be showcasing these artists instead of shaming them.

This is quite an extensive research which must have taken so much time and energy. I've learnt the importance of giving back to hive and adding values to the communities at large.

It's been 2 months since I joined hive and I learn everyday by taking time to explore, read and engage in people's post. I'm happy to have come across this post.

Thank you.

Love the article Captain! Great insight and glad to see you continuing to dive into many areas, learning, and then spreading that knowledge! :)

It's not often I read thru a 3600 word post ( ok I skimmed the splinterland technical bits because I don't play). It's great to see that AZ has converted yet another person to dive into the wider Hive ecosystem successfully.

There's a lot going on on Hive and some stuff that many hope would go away, but sadly we don't live in an ideal world. That's why have a strong community who cares about Hive is so important. Welcome!😄

Haha, what a long post. Took me ages to read it. Yes, it is quite hard for some, especially now. And Splinterlands is no exception. I am almost tempted to log on my big account to upvote you! :)

Good article mate. Glad someone is calling out some of this shit again - I got tired :)

A long read but an eye opener. Not just for Splinterlands but other games as well, art contests are curated using delegated HP by assigned curators. Maybe curators should also take into account the participants Hive behaviour.

This was a great post I think you are highlighting what a lot of feel. The extraction of value from the chain hurts all of us and it can be frustrating to see it happen.

This is honest very constructive thank you! I'm new to Hive the first thing that got me (emotional) is how I see people milking the system. Okay I cannot control that. I started looking at Splinterlands when the 1st proposal came out and it's the same thing people that was curated or milking the system didn't even bother to vote for it. Again I cannot control that. The best thing to do is to lead by example. I'm still learning and I want to learn more in this Hive ecosystem. "I try to be a decent human with some empathy and compassion" this is a person (you) who do good for others. Thank you very much again for this post!

Fuck me, long read that's for sure.

Second issue raised, cap on nfts being printed, i.e. cards and or packs, buy I'm sure not going to happen because splinterlands team wasn't the mulah.

Third issue, you hit the head with the hammer there, packs should only be rewarded to accounts that have spellbooks.

I don't play the game but i do occasionally dabble in it when i feel like it.

But yeah fucken long read.

This is an awesome post, @captaindingus 😀 When I looked a minute ago, up to $133 in author rewards. Don't power it down and pull it all out of Hive immediately 😜

I think you're spot on about the way some people just pull all the value they earn out of Hive. It makes me wonder what our market cap would be if all those funds were still in the ecosystem.

But on the other hand, I'm sure I'm not the only one who has daydreams of giving up the day job and just living off Hive earnings. For users in countries with low-wage economies, it's a tempting goal that's closer than for those of us lucky enough to live in the expensive West !

It would be lovely to find ways to incentivise some of those people to keep some of their earnings in Hive and cycle them around so that they help build the community and ecosystem while increasing their earnings enough that they could pull out what they do now but still leave plenty in the system. Heck, even just putting it in HBD savings and only drawing down half the interest would likely work for them in the long run !

I think one big issue (and this is an aside) is there is no rule book when you arrive, I found this place by accident and was posting in the wrong blogs, making short blogs el,.multi day posting ect luckily a group called @theterminal reached out taught me the ropes and helped me make better blogs, but without that you do feel adrift. I think we need a better ways to engage early with people on what Tue community unspoken rules are and hel people find Thier community for there style of blogging, otherwise it's just seen as anthor cause cow blogging site, p.s great read

!PIZZA

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Thanks for poking where it tickles most. Made me reflect on my Splinterlands goal. First, I will join the #HPUD next month and the following months. DO we have hivewatchers-like in SPL? Will it be a good thing if we will have one in the game?
Great post, Vonak! !BBH

This has got to be one of the longest posts I have ever seen so congratz for that alone 😅

The problem with web3 games is that people will always try to extract maximum valuefrom it. That means there is almost always more value being extracted out of it than is put in. It's not a splinterlands specific problem, although it has been aggravated by bad economic decisions. Is there a single game that doesn't have this problem out there? I doubt it.

So what to do about it? Inflation is definitely a major problem and splinterlands has done all the wrong things here. 3B Sps, overprinting in cards etc... this only works when the influx of new players or of money exceeds that devaluation. And that generally happens in a bull market. We haven't really had one which is why things look so dire.

Anyway, I think there is still a chance if the team/game survives for a couple more years. Yeah at least another cycle. This year probably won't be the great salvation as mismanagement simply put the great really on hold u tul it gets sorted out

Ok so now we come to the point where the whales dont want anymore extractor but they still can sell as they get a ROI witch they sell, so they can keep selling but newbies cant create anything here anymore !! At least get no vote so the deduction of hive is the fault of the newbies, o please 😅 its fucked SPL is fucked they fucked us over and the peopl ewho need to proclaim the change are not capable enough to do so. Ill wait for survivor mode and if it sucks im selling.

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Hive Emergency: A Call to Action STOP THE BAD DOWNVOTES

We are facing a critical situation on the Hive blockchain, where a small group of individuals is exerting undue influence and control over the community. This group, comprised of a single "whale" and their associated accounts, is using their power to downvote good content, self-vote their own posts, and power down their tokens.

This behavior is having a devastating impact on our community, and it is essential that we take immediate action to address this issue. We propose two key solutions:

• Implement a comment requirement for downvotes: This would ensure that users are aware of the reasons behind downvotes and can engage in informed discussions about the motivations behind these actions.
• Reform our community to prioritize love and inclusivity: We must create a community where everyone can thrive, not just the chosen few. This can be achieved by promoting a culture of love, compassion, and respect.

We understand that some individuals may be concerned about the rules and moderators. However, it is essential to recognize that the rules are made by the same individuals who are farming the system. Therefore, it is time for us to take matters into our own hands and create a new, better Hive.

We invite you to share your thoughts, ideas, and concerns in the comments below. Together, we can work towards creating a more inclusive, compassionate community for all Hivers.

Your decision to keep your actions under wraps is a clear sign of your desperation, and it's not going to work. You thought you could keep your scamming activities hidden, but the truth has finally come to light. It's time for you to face the consequences of your actions and seek help. Being online will not solve your problems; in fact, it will only exacerbate them. Those who encourage your behavior are just as culpable as you are, and it's essential that they take responsibility for their actions as well.

We've even caught some top Hivers using their alt accounts to fund their own projects and manipulate the system. It is like they are playing a game of Hiveopoly, but instead of rolling dice, they are rolling out downvotes and taking money as they wish

The Bilpcoin team were attacked by Themarkymark gang so, we started investigating and gathering evidence, and before long, we had a whole list of scammers and abusers. And let me tell you, it was a doozy

We are like the superheroes of Hive LOL night night Buildawhale scam farm

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We're ending the day with a bang - introducing two more crazy Santa designs: one happy drunk and one smoking

Their attempts to intimidate and silence their critics are equally concerning. The use of downvotes as a means of censorship is a clear indication of their desperation to maintain their grip on the narrative. But it's not working

https://hive.blog/hive-167922/@themarkymark/re-bpcvoter3-sp2q9h

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themarkymark (80)in LeoFinance 18 hours ago You are the abuse on Hive hive.blog/hive-167922/@themarkymark/re-bpcvoter3-smp740 LOL TRANSACTIONS DON'T LIE PEOPLE DO PEOPLE LIKE YOU DO Curation reward for BUILDAWHALE COMMENT FARM buildawhale51.108 HP

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Bad downvotes on Hive are a growing concern that must be addressed. These downvotes not only discourage users from sharing their real thoughts and ideas but also damage the community as a whole, we see many walk away

We're disappointed to see that our work is still being downvoted despite the valuable insights and information we provide

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The Need for Change

We've been having heated discussions on Hive, and off Hive it's time to set the record straight. The Buildawhale scam farm has been exposed, and it's time for them to face the consequences.

Concerns about Downvotes on Hive
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Rise of the Spam farm Accounts on Hive steemychicken1

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Man, this was freaking awesome! Well done cap, I thoroughly enjoyed this article head to toe.

Oh and FWIW the winner of this art contest definitely has a Spellbook ;) https://peakd.com/splinterlands/@splinterlands/splinterlands-art-contest-week-328

Thanks for sharing. Greetings.

Really interesting post - I must admit I’ve been in and out of hive and splinterlands for a few years and never really built up my HP, I’m making an effort to engage and grow my HP this year, consistency is my first problem and then it will be improving my writing style, I came to hive through splinterlands and now I’m enjoying finding new things here too

It's a well written post, however, I disagree with a few things (or just see them from a different perspective).

You first talk about "extraction". I honestly hate the way it is often used in Splinterlands and I also believe it is being used the same way for Hive. Everyone is an extractor by definition, unless they plan to stay in the ecosystem forever. However, only those who take their profits constantly are called extractors. Is there any difference between someone who has been here for 3 years and sold everything as soon as they could and someone who has been here for the same time but didn't sell anything until after 3 years when they sold it all at once? Both extracted as much as they could in the same time frame.

Is someone who plays SPL manually on rented cards and rented SPS and managed to profit and sell everything periodically an extractor? In my opinion, that's not an extractor. It's someone who has learned the game well enough (and manages everything well enough) and is proving to us it is possible to do that. That has a lot of value in itself. It attracts others to try to do the same. Not everyone will be good enough to make it. And the more people that do this, the harder it gets. It also increases the returns to the owners of those assets.

To me, an extractor is a bot farm where very minimal (or not) gain in each account, replicated over 1000s of them, making it worse for everyone else. It doesn't matter if they sell immediately or not.

The same can be applied to Hive. If someone writes quality content, does it matter if they sell everything right away? We don't know that person's situation. Maybe they have immediate needs, maybe they believe Hive will go down in price, maybe they want to invest in something else. The Hive post is their contribution and the rewards are theirs to do whatever they want. Isn't that the beauty of crypto? I hate the "model behavior" and "bad behavior" arguments for that reason. If I put $10k into Hive and make terrible posts, should I get higher upvotes than someone who doesn't put anything but makes great posts? Owning more Hive already has several benefits, including giving higher upvotes (which half goes to the author and the other half goes to the voter). That should affect the upvotes you get yourself.

That doesn't mean there can't be abusive behavior in the contests. I have never participated in the art contests, since I have no talent for art. I do participate in the other ones. Only very recently I found out that they give away packs to the art contests, which they don't for the others. I don't really know why they do that. They probably should only give out packs to those who have a spellbook, although, since there's a free-to-play mode now, there might be some legitimate players without one.

As for the low HP on Splinterlands players, I think that's natural. Most people came for Splinterlands. Without it, I wouldn't even know about Hive. If one day I stop playing Splinterlands, I'm 99% sure I will also leave Hive. I'm pretty sure that's the stance of most Splinterlands players. Many don't even know about Hive, they just play the game! Not only that, but most of us don't have infinite money. If I have X to spend in this ecosystem, I'd rather put it directly in Splinterlands. I can buy more cards to give me a better chance in the games or SPS to earn a little more. That's more important to me than having a bit more HP and a bit more voting power. Not only that, but it's also not easy to put money in here. The only way I know how to put money into Hive/Splinterlands is to buy credits. This is mostly only good to buy cards, although, with some CL cards so close to burn value, it's possible to convert $ to DEC without losing too much.

As for what Splinterlands has to gain from the contests, it's a lot. There are those who sell everything to outside the system. But that means there's someone else buying. And there are many who fuel their Splinterlands purchases with the Hive they earn from those posts. That's what I do. I leave the HP powered up and the liquid part I use to buy DEC or SPS.

The grow up Peter Pan had me in stitches.

I understand your point of view but I see no gross neglect here. If following the rules they deserve the spoils. After earning those spoils such earned spoils are theirs to do with what they please including cashing out. I say that as someone who has cashed out $0 and invested a handful of thousands into Hive. I thought something more sinister was going on. The little hamster in my head was doing wheelies. I don't even want to type out the scenarios I was coming up with. I was happy to see it was a powering down: cashing out grievance. Would it be wise to build a stake? Of course, it shows commitment to the chain. But only they know what is best for them. I find it hard to fault anyone for cashing out what they earned. I don't fault those who don't vote on such accounts either. That's the beauty of the the blockchain we each have our weight and use it as we see fit to do so. I would be more worried if it was large stake holders/ community leaders / witnesses doing so with large amounts of Hive but all I'm seeing displayed here is what I consider to be typical end-user behavior that will be much more frequent once WEB2 users flock to Hive.

What does Splinterland get?

Exposure is the answer. The art contest like the other contests is the reason why so many posts about Splinterlands are on the Blockchain and elsewhere. Possibly the use of the artwork to some degree? Likely also can be used to scout for the next artist they might hire to help create new cards (just a wild guess on my part). I do agree that some sort of rules should be put in place for the handing out of rare assets. To play devil's advocate here, the holding of packs might be their way of keeping something in their accounts to show support. There's many possibilities here.

One of the most thoughtful, well-considered posts I have ever read on Hive, both hard-hitting and compassionate and understanding that human nature and human systems, human need and human history, matter.

The terminology of "extraction" does disturb me, however, because there is not a rule book for Hive that ever explains there is an expectation that people cannot do their work, get paid, and take ALL of their rewards to support their lives. In the case of Latin America, much of the citizenry there is suffering the results of hundreds of years of resource and labor extraction ... others are rich (read: the "First World") and they are impoverished, and in great need. So, here they come to a place where they can earn fairly for their work, and there is no one to explain all these community expectations. Now, in the cases where CLEARLY there is manipulation of the system through multiple accounts and schemes, OK: I can see the problem. But the idea that people not told that there is a future dream they need to buy into are judged for doing what works for their life is disturbing. As no less than Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. once pointed out, a whole lot of people are expected to work very hard to build others' dreams and told to WAIT on building their own -- and cast as the criminals for not waiting.

At the LEAST, we ought not to judge people for not knowing what we have not told them -- and I appreciate your comment below in terms of education, not shaming, as the solution.

There's a simple Solution to this HIVE problem. Make all author and curation rewards, SOULBOUND. No more cashout, HIVE mooning.

i really had no idea that people were extracting the prizes from those contests, as a dabbling artiste (note the e) i have thought about doing some of them. don't think i have though. No fear... i think i have bought $15k of splinterlands resouces and HIVE and have sold $5 of cards and powered down $10 of HIVE just to see the process them powered it back up again. :-)

interesting post.

BLINGIT